If you think saving the planet is nonsense then I wish you would move to another one

[wayoflife]

The windmill farm I drive by every day on the way to and from work have 90% of them not spinning. So much energy getting produced.


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LOL!! I guess that explains why wind is only responsible for 6.24% of California's energy. Too bad they kill all kinds of birds of prey, even endangered ones when they are spinning. Guess saving the planet is more important.

 

[BillArnett]

And every time you get in your Jeep with it's MPG robbing 37x13.50's, you kill the planet one mile at a time.



Unlike you, I get out and enjoy our planet in places where most people could never hope to visit and in most cases, would never bother to. It's like going back in time and seeing the world for what it was like well before there were self-righteous people telling me how I should live my life. Out there, if things go wrong - you know, because change happens, the last thing I'd want to deal with is something that's anywhere near as complicated as that POS. The more plumbing there is, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

I do get out and enjoy the places my Jeep can take me. Maybe not as often as you do or as often as I like but it’s way I have a Jeep (learning rock crawling was an unexpected bonus).

On Rivian, it seems backwards to think a JL is less complicated than a Rivian. An electric drive train is a LOT simpler than a gas powered one. There’s just a big battery (no moving parts), a motor (or 4) (very solid well understood tech), and some electronics (no moving parts). There is no air cleaner to clog, no gas tank to rupture, no fuel pump to fail or gas lines to break or exhaust system to smash. No fuel injectors to clog or cams or pistons or rings to wear out. No transmission, no transfer case, no shifters. Gas powered drive trains have been optimized for a century and are now amazingly reliable. And EV drivetrains are only a decade old now (in real volumes) and hence not quite as optimized. But Tesla drivetrains have gone more than a billion miles by now with very few problems. If Tesla made a version with big tires and a skid plate under the battery I would not hesitate to take it anywhere I’ve taken my Jeeps.

 

[OverlanderJL]

I do get out and enjoy the places my Jeep can take me. Maybe not as often as you do or as often as I like but it’s way I have a Jeep (learning rock crawling was an unexpected bonus).

On Rivian, it seems backwards to think a JL is less complicated than a Rivian. An electric drive train is a LOT simpler than a gas powered one. There’s just a big battery (no moving parts), a motor (or 4) (very solid well understood tech), and some electronics (no moving parts). There is no air cleaner to clog, no gas tank to rupture, no fuel pump to fail or gas lines to break or exhaust system to smash. No fuel injectors to clog or cams or pistons or rings to wear out. No transmission, no transfer case, no shifters. Gas powered drive trains have been optimized for a century and are now amazingly reliable. And EV drivetrains are only a decade old now (in real volumes) and hence not quite as optimized. But Tesla drivetrains have gone more than a billion miles by now with very few problems. If Tesla made a version with big tires and a skid plate under the battery I would not hesitate to take it anywhere I’ve taken my Jeeps.

Didn’t realize there was chargers in the middle of the desert.


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[wayoflife]

I do get out and enjoy the places my Jeep can take me. Maybe not as often as you do or as often as I like but it’s way I have a Jeep (learning rock crawling was an unexpected bonus).

Well shit! Rock crawling burns all kinds of gas. You're probably averaging 5-6 MPG when you do that. Nice way to accelerate the pace of the the planet's destruction. :rolleyes2:

On Rivian, it seems backwards to think a JL is less complicated than a Rivian. An electric drive train is a LOT simpler than a gas powered one. There’s just a big battery (no moving parts), a motor (or 4) (very solid well understood tech), and some electronics (no moving parts). There is no air cleaner to clog, no gas tank to rupture, no fuel pump to fail or gas lines to break or exhaust system to smash. No fuel injectors to clog or cams or pistons or rings to wear out. No transmission, no transfer case, no shifters. Gas powered drive trains have been optimized for a century and are now amazingly reliable. And EV drivetrains are only a decade old now (in real volumes) and hence not quite as optimized. But Tesla drivetrains have gone more than a billion miles by now with very few problems. If Tesla made a version with big tires and a skid plate under the battery I would not hesitate to take it anywhere I’ve taken my Jeeps.

blah blah blah - never said the JL was less complicated but it is one that I know I can work on.

With all that said, I would really appreciate it if you would just leave now. Please feel free to preach the good word elsewhere.

 

[OverlanderJL]

Well shit! Rock crawling burns all kinds of gas. You're probably averaging 5-6 MPG when you do that. Nice way to accelerate the pace of the the planet's destruction. :rolleyes2:



blah blah blah - never said the JL was less complicated but it is one that I know I can work on.

With all that said, I would really appreciate it if you would just leave now. Please feel free to preach the good word elsewhere.

Amen! Funny how this jackass only responds to you. Maybe he has a thing for guys with pony tails.


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[notnalc68]

I do get out and enjoy the places my Jeep can take me. Maybe not as often as you do or as often as I like but it’s way I have a Jeep (learning rock crawling was an unexpected bonus).

On Rivian, it seems backwards to think a JL is less complicated than a Rivian. An electric drive train is a LOT simpler than a gas powered one. There’s just a big battery (no moving parts), a motor (or 4) (very solid well understood tech), and some electronics (no moving parts). There is no air cleaner to clog, no gas tank to rupture, no fuel pump to fail or gas lines to break or exhaust system to smash. No fuel injectors to clog or cams or pistons or rings to wear out. No transmission, no transfer case, no shifters. Gas powered drive trains have been optimized for a century and are now amazingly reliable. And EV drivetrains are only a decade old now (in real volumes) and hence not quite as optimized. But Tesla drivetrains have gone more than a billion miles by now with very few problems. If Tesla made a version with big tires and a skid plate under the battery I would not hesitate to take it anywhere I’ve taken my Jeeps.

How much gas mileage have you lost, and how much harder is your engine working, to push your ever heavier Jeep? You seem to be avoiding this question.



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[wayoflife]

Amen! Funny how this jackass only responds to you. Maybe he has a thing for guys with pony tails.

What can I say. :rolleyes2:

Either way, I'm done with this hypocrite.

 

[wayoflife]

How much gas mileage have you lost, and how much harder is your engine working, to push your ever heavier Jeep? You seem to be avoiding this question.

That's because answering would required him to admit that he's destroying the planet with it.

 

[JTCO]

......,

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

The windmill farm I drive by every day on the way to and from work have 90% of them not spinning. So much energy getting produced.


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They dont work when they dont spin, and they don't work when they do spin lol

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

LOL!! I guess that explains why wind is only responsible for 6.24% of California's energy. Too bad they kill all kinds of birds of prey, even endangered ones when they are spinning. Guess saving the planet is more important.

lol, didn't California mismanage the shit out of their water in order to protect some smelt or something, destroying all of the farms in the south :crazyeyes:

 

[notnalc68]

They dont work when they dont spin, and they don't work when they do spin lol

Those horses were probably farting as they ran. Bad for the environment, too.


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[wayoflife]

lol, didn't California mismanage the shit out of their water in order to protect some smelt or something, destroying all of the farms in the south :crazyeyes:

Yep, the whole water thing to protect the delta smelt is a sad one for many farmers in the central valley. What really sucks is that they have reservoirs like Oroville that were desperately in need of repair for decades but California decided there was no need for it being that it was essentially empty. Of course, surprise! The rains came back again and completely filled up what "experts" said could NEVER be filled up in 20 years and to the point where it was in danger of collapse. What's really lame is that it would have been easy to make the repairs when the reservoir was empty but now, it'd be very difficult and expensive to do. But then, that's California for you.

 

[BillArnett]

... that's just your opinion ...

No, it’s not. It’s the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community. But of course, that’s an ad hominem argument. In an ideal world you would examine all the available data yourself and reach your own conclusion. But in the real world few of us have the ability to do that. Especially in a case like this where it is extremely complicated and where there is such a vast amount of data to analyze. Laymen like most of us here have to rely on “executive summaries” and references like the ones I mentioned. And weigh those against the arguments made by others on the other side of the issue. And yes, ultimately it may come down to who to trust. Do you think the oil industry scientists are more trustworthy than the academic ones?

It’s also an ad hominem argument when you say in essence, don’t believe in climate change because Bill drives a JL with 37s.

I am indeed conflicted about my JL. I do the best I can to live up to what I believe. But I do love the outdoors and I’m too old to do much backpacking. So I need a Jeep to get to my favorite places. I’ll trade it for an EV off-roader as soon as I can. (I’ve even though of building a custom EV off-roader by chopping up a Tesla. I could probably hire a shop to do the mechanical stuff but there’s no way to get inside the software.) In the meanwhile I do what I can and vote for politicians that at least recognize that there’s a problem.

 

[notnalc68]

No, it’s not. It’s the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community. But of course, that’s an ad hominem argument. In an ideal world you would examine all the available data yourself and reach your own conclusion. But in the real world few of us have the ability to do that. Especially in a case like this where it is extremely complicated and where there is such a vast amount of data to analyze. Laymen like most of us here have to rely on “executive summaries” and references like the ones I mentioned. And weigh those against the arguments made by others on the other side of the issue. And yes, ultimately it may come down to who to trust. Do you think the oil industry scientists are more trustworthy than the academic ones?

It’s also an ad hominem argument when you say in essence, don’t believe in climate change because Bill drives a JL with 37s.

I am indeed conflicted about my JL. I do the best I can to live up to what I believe. But I do love the outdoors and I’m too old to do much backpacking. So I need a Jeep to get to my favorite places. I’ll trade it for an EV off-roader as soon as I can. (I’ve even though of building a custom EV off-roader by chopping up a Tesla. I could probably hire a shop to do the mechanical stuff but there’s no way to get inside the software.) In the meanwhile I do what I can and vote for politicians that at least recognize that there’s a problem.

So, an oil industry scientist is less trustworthy, than a scientist who gets a grant from climate change organizations, to try and prove their point of view?


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[BillArnett]

Didn’t realize there was chargers in the middle of the desert.


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There’s a Supercharger in Moab. And over 700 more in the USA. And many more slower chargers. When I had my Tesla Roadster 10 years ago it was a bit of a challenge to take a road trip. But now it’s trivial. And with the Rivian’s 400 mile range on the highway and maybe 200 on the dirt I challenge you to find a place that’s that far from the nearest EV charger.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Yep, the whole water thing to protect the delta smelt is a sad one for many farmers in the central valley. What really sucks is that they have reservoirs like Oroville that were desperately in need of repair for decades but California decided there was no need for it being that it was essentially empty. Of course, surprise! The rains came back again and completely filled up what "experts" said could NEVER be filled up in 20 years and to the point where it was in danger of collapse. What's really lame is that it would have been easy to make the repairs when the reservoir was empty but now, it'd be very difficult and expensive to do. But then, that's California for you.

But I heard they have an awesome high speed rail line now....oh wait...lol

 

[JTCO]

No, it’s not. It’s the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community. But of course, that’s an ad hominem argument. In an ideal world you would examine all the available data yourself and reach your own conclusion. But in the real world few of us have the ability to do that. Especially in a case like this where it is extremely complicated and where there is such a vast amount of data to analyze. Laymen like most of us here have to rely on “executive summaries” and references like the ones I mentioned. And weigh those against the arguments made by others on the other side of the issue. And yes, ultimately it may come down to who to trust. Do you think the oil industry scientists are more trustworthy than the academic ones?

It’s also an ad hominem argument when you say in essence, don’t believe in climate change because Bill drives a JL with 37s.

I am indeed conflicted about my JL. I do the best I can to live up to what I believe. But I do love the outdoors and I’m too old to do much backpacking. So I need a Jeep to get to my favorite places. I’ll trade it for an EV off-roader as soon as I can. (I’ve even though of building a custom EV off-roader by chopping up a Tesla. I could probably hire a shop to do the mechanical stuff but there’s no way to get inside the software.) In the meanwhile I do what I can and vote for politicians that at least recognize that there’s a problem.

The 'vast majority' of scientists is still within the MINORITY of critical thinkers that actually give a fuck. These scientists are still bought and paid for by the 'powers that be' to convince the masses that we are somehow a cancer upon the earth and we should totally submit ourselves to being environmentally ass-raped because they're the experts (on a printed piece of paper) and we aren't, and the average freedom-loving American doesn't have millions of dollars in equipment to prove otherwise. Once again, go fuck yourself, and I'll continue to Love this great American country and do whatever the fuck I want because I have God-given rights to be left the fuck alone from people like you. :beer:

 

[BillArnett]

... I would really appreciate it if you would just leave now..

I wasn’t the one that started this sub-thread by dissing AOC. I came to this forum to get information about Jeeps. It’s been very valuable in that respect. Maybe we can just go back to that?

And whoever hacked my avatar please put it back!

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

No, it’s not. It’s the opinion of the vast majority of the scientific community. But of course, that’s an ad hominem argument. In an ideal world you would examine all the available data yourself and reach your own conclusion. But in the real world few of us have the ability to do that. Especially in a case like this where it is extremely complicated and where there is such a vast amount of data to analyze. Laymen like most of us here have to rely on “executive summaries” and references like the ones I mentioned. And weigh those against the arguments made by others on the other side of the issue. And yes, ultimately it may come down to who to trust. Do you think the oil industry scientists are more trustworthy than the academic ones?

It’s also an ad hominem argument when you say in essence, don’t believe in climate change because Bill drives a JL with 37s.

I am indeed conflicted about my JL. I do the best I can to live up to what I believe. But I do love the outdoors and I’m too old to do much backpacking. So I need a Jeep to get to my favorite places. I’ll trade it for an EV off-roader as soon as I can. (I’ve even though of building a custom EV off-roader by chopping up a Tesla. I could probably hire a shop to do the mechanical stuff but there’s no way to get inside the software.) In the meanwhile I do what I can and vote for politicians that at least recognize that there’s a problem.

Do me a favor (and if you want to discuss global temp change in the offtopic area rather than clog this one with this stuff), take a look at this video and tell me if you understand what is going on. Maybe the mods can cut out the global warming stuff into it's own thread so this one remains relevant. *I take responsibility for derailing with the AOC is stupid comment (which she is) )*