MAKE SURE to be in MANUAL SHIFT when Wheeling in 4LO

wayoflife · Apr 4, 2018

While wheeling out in Moab during the recent Easter Jeep Safari, Cindy and I discovered a rather odd if not troubling issue with the JL Wrangler's new 8-speed automatic transmission. Specifically, if you're in 4LO and have your transmission shifted to "D" or drive, you may experience a momentary loss of power while attempting an obstacle that requires a bit of throttle. This can cause you to loose the momentum you were needing and allow you to fall off your line. The first time I saw this happen was on JeepFan's JL and on this obstacle.

I should note that I experienced this problem for myself while attempting a similar obstacle and I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. For a brief moment, it felt like my engine just cut out and for no good reason. Of course, the answer to this problem is to make sure you have your transmission shifted into the manual shift mode or what is also known as 'M-Gate'. Granted, it can be hard to remember at times especially when you're shifting into reverse and then back into drive again but so long as you're in M-Gate, this problem will not occur. Anyway, I know all this may seem obvious to some of you out there but it wasn't for me. Hopefully this information will be helpful to others.

JAGS · Apr 4, 2018

Ok, I’ll ask here too. You can copy and paste as I did. Lol.

Glad you posted this up as I’ve been meaning to go back and ask where you first mentioned it. And it was noted in another thread.

I’ll be honest and say in my JK I am hardly in manual shift mode. Usually I just don’t even think about it, it being an automatic. And if I do, it’s usually a first gear climb or maybe a geared decline down a large hill use and then back to auto.

All said, I don’t honestly know if I’m even doing that right. LOL. Any hint on which gear to use for a particular situation if different than the above???

OverlanderJL · Apr 4, 2018

That sucks! Could be really scary on that obstacle too!

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notnalc68 · Apr 4, 2018

wayoflife said:
While wheeling out in Moab during the recent Easter Jeep Safari, Cindy and I discovered a rather odd if not troubling issue with the JL Wrangler's new 8-speed automatic transmission. Specifically, if you're in 4LO and have your transmission shifted to "D" or drive, you may experience a momentary loss of power while attempting an obstacle that requires a bit of throttle. This can cause you to loose the momentum you were needing and allow you to fall off your line. The first time I saw this happen was on JeepFan's JL and on this obstacle.

I should note that I experienced this problem for myself while attempting a similar obstacle and I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. For a brief moment, it felt like my engine just cut out and for no good reason. Of course, the answer to this problem is to make sure you have your transmission shifted into the manual shift mode or what is also known as 'M-Gate'. Granted, it can be hard to remember at times especially when you're shifting into reverse and then back into drive again but so long as you're in M-Gate, this problem will not occur. Anyway, I know all this may seem obvious to some of you out there but it wasn't for me. Hopefully this information will be helpful to others.

I take it that you normally do not shift Rubicat? In my limited off road experience, I’ve never manually shifted my JK’s much. Still, I think I’ll buy an automatic JL, although originally I had said I’d buy a manual.

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BillArnett · Apr 4, 2018

wayoflife said:
While wheeling out in Moab during the recent Easter Jeep Safari, Cindy and I discovered a rather odd if not troubling issue with the JL Wrangler's new 8-speed automatic transmission. Specifically, if you're in 4LO and have your transmission shifted to "D" or drive, you may experience a momentary loss of power while attempting an obstacle that requires a bit of throttle. This can cause you to loose the momentum you were needing and allow you to fall off your line.

What gear was it in before the shift? Did it try to shift up or down? I don’t think I’ve ever had this problem with my JK but that’s probably because I’m usually in 1 anyway on anything difficult. With the 8-speed maybe 1 isn’t always the best choice? Or maybe when you stopped at the bottom it didn’t go into 1? When you went into “M-gate” what gear did you choose?

OverlanderJL · Apr 4, 2018

BillArnett said:
What gear was it in before the shift? Did it try to shift up or down? I don’t think I’ve ever had this problem with my JK but that’s probably because I’m usually in 1 anyway on anything difficult. With the 8-speed maybe 1 isn’t always the best choice? Or maybe when you stopped at the bottom it didn’t go into 1? When you went into “M-gate” what gear did you choose?

Being that you have to stop at the bottom of that obstacle one would assume he was in first. But if he was in manual mode and it said what gear he wouldn’t have the issue he had. Don’t overthink everything in life.

Sent from my iPhone using JL Wrangler Jeep Forum mobile app

wayoflife · Apr 4, 2018

JAGS said:
Ok, I’ll ask here too. You can copy and paste as I did. Lol.

Glad you posted this up as I’ve been meaning to go back and ask where you first mentioned it. And it was noted in another thread.

I’ll be honest and say in my JK I am hardly in manual shift mode. Usually I just don’t even think about it, it being an automatic. And if I do, it’s usually a first gear climb or maybe a geared decline down a large hill use and then back to auto.

All said, I don’t honestly know if I’m even doing that right. LOL. Any hint on which gear to use for a particular situation if different than the above???

Unlike the JK, when you shift into manual mode, the transmission will default to 2nd gear. If you want to go lower, you have to manually shift it to 1st. That being said, 2nd isn't a bad gear to be bumping up Slide Rock as you kind of need to move through it.

OverlanderJL said:
That sucks! Could be really scary on that obstacle too!

Oh yeah, it was a surprise to say the least. Doesn't help that you always see people flop or come close to it on it too :crazyeyes:

notnalc68 said:
I take it that you normally do not shift Rubicat? In my limited off road experience, I’ve never manually shifted my JK’s much. Still, I think I’ll buy an automatic JL, although originally I had said I’d buy a manual.

Actually, I shift into manual on Rubicat all the time but only when I feel it's really necessary. There are plenty of obstacles where 1st simply isn't needed. Also, when you're going into reverse and then back into drive while trying to get yourself lined up on an obstacle, it can be easy to forget to go into manual again. Certainly, it happens to me and I found out the hard way what that will do. This is why I made this post - to warn others about it.

BillArnett said:
What gear was it in before the shift? Did it try to shift up or down? I don’t think I’ve ever had this problem with my JK but that’s probably because I’m usually in 1 anyway on anything difficult. With the 8-speed maybe 1 isn’t always the best choice? Or maybe when you stopped at the bottom it didn’t go into 1? When you went into “M-gate” what gear did you choose?

The JL is no JK. Also, I am only guessing that the transmission is trying to shift as putting it in manual eliminates this problem. When it happens, it feels like your motor just cuts out. When you select manual, it defaults into 2nd gear.

JAGS · Apr 4, 2018

wayoflife said:
Unlike the JK, when you shift into manual mode, the transmission will default to 2nd gear. If you want to go lower, you have to manually shift it to 1st. That being said, 2nd isn't a bad gear to be bumping up Slide Rock as you kind of need to move through it.

Oh yeah, it was a surprise to say the least. Doesn't help that you always see people flop or come close to it on it too :crazyeyes:

Actually, I shift into manual on Rubicat all the time but only when I feel it's really necessary. There are plenty of obstacles where 1st simply isn't needed. Also, when you're going into reverse and then back into drive while trying to get yourself lined up on an obstacle, it can be easy to forget to go into manual again. Certainly, it happens to me and I found out the hard way what that will do. This is why I made this post - to warn others about it.

The JL is no JK. Also, I am only guessing that the transmission is trying to shift as putting it in manual eliminates this problem. When it happens, it feels like your motor just cuts out. When you select manual, it defaults into 2nd gear.

Thanks. Would be nerve racking for sure. After the experiences you noted, did you stall anywhere else or had you remembered to m gate.

With all the JLs out in Moab, wonder how many others discovered this to be the case.

wayoflife · Apr 4, 2018

JAGS said:
Thanks. Would be nerve racking for sure. After the experiences you noted, did you stall anywhere else or had you remembered to m gate.

With all the JLs out in Moab, wonder how many others discovered this to be the case.

There's a steep slickrock climb on Metal Masher that I've done countless times and without giving it much thought. I had to back up to get into a better line knowing that my stinger would get caught. I put it back into drive but forgot to put it into manual and just as I started bumping my way up, the engine cut out and I fell back down. I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. What really sucked is that the JL now sitting on the stinger and the rear tires were off the ground. I couldn't move back and and trying to go forward only got me drifting to the side. Fortunately, we had friends to help pull me up. I wasn't too thrilled by the experience but now I know what needs to be done to prevent it.

JAGS · Apr 4, 2018

wayoflife said:
There's a steep slickrock climb on Metal Masher that I've done countless times and without giving it much thought. I had to back up to get into a better line knowing that my stinger would get caught. I put it back into drive but forgot to put it into manual and just as I started bumping my way up, the engine cut out and I fell back down. I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. What really sucked is that the JL now sitting on the stinger and the rear tires were off the ground. I couldn't move back and and trying to go forward only got me drifting to the side. Fortunately, we had friends to help pull me up. I wasn't too thrilled by the experience but now I know what needs to be done to prevent it.

Wow. That is crazy. And really, probably something Jeep should be notifying owners about.

I’d certainly be spooked in any of the situations you’ve described. Luckily you and tony are experienced wheelers and also had others around to help.

Thinknator · Apr 4, 2018

I had the similar issue last week at EJS but wasn't sure what it was. My JL is all stock and we weren't doing any hard trails like Eddie was but you get that sense of uncertainty feeling like oh crap, what do I do? Luckily one of our guides there suggested to put into manual. Made all the difference.

Thanks for explaining Eddie, made a lot of sense now.

offcamber · Apr 4, 2018

This same thing happened to us going up a really steep switchback on Engineer Pass last year in our 2014 Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. It was raining really hard so traction wasn't great and as I gave it some go pedal, it upshifted and I lost all momentum to the point that we stalled and started rolling back. I thought it had died at first. Needless to say, I stayed in manual shift mode using the paddle shifters the rest of the day.

DEFCON1 · Apr 4, 2018

wayoflife said:
While wheeling out in Moab during the recent Easter Jeep Safari, Cindy and I discovered a rather odd if not troubling issue with the JL Wrangler's new 8-speed automatic transmission. Specifically, if you're in 4LO and have your transmission shifted to "D" or drive, you may experience a momentary loss of power while attempting an obstacle that requires a bit of throttle. This can cause you to loose the momentum you were needing and allow you to fall off your line. The first time I saw this happen was on JeepFan's JL and on this obstacle.

I should note that I experienced this problem for myself while attempting a similar obstacle and I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. For a brief moment, it felt like my engine just cut out and for no good reason. Of course, the answer to this problem is to make sure you have your transmission shifted into the manual shift mode or what is also known as 'M-Gate'. Granted, it can be hard to remember at times especially when you're shifting into reverse and then back into drive again but so long as you're in M-Gate, this problem will not occur. Anyway, I know all this may seem obvious to some of you out there but it wasn't for me. Hopefully this information will be helpful to others.

What in the hell kinda manufacturing safety ninja nonsense is this sh**. I hope this is something that can be fixed by adjusting the ECU/TCU parameters. Could you imagine someone who didn't have the experience or knowledge trying to get themselves unstuck from a situation like this and being trapped there for an extended period of time, thus putting them in greater danger then the "potential danger" that this "safety" feature is somehow preventing.

TheChucklesStart · Apr 4, 2018

I guess this is why all of the pre-release offroad reviews explicitly mentioned putting the vehicle into first on jeeps demo course. I always thought that was to show off the manual control of the automatic.

Sent from my iPhone using JL Wrangler Jeep Forum mobile app

13_gecko_rubi · Apr 4, 2018

OverlanderJL said:
Being that you have to stop at the bottom of that obstacle one would assume he was in first. But if he was in manual mode and it said what gear he wouldn’t have the issue he had. Don’t overthink everything in life.

Sent from my iPhone using JL Wrangler Jeep Forum mobile app

It would actually be in 2nd. It will only go into 1st in 4 lo if u go into manual mode and put it there as the gearing is so low in 1st.

Sent via....

JLU_RUBI · Apr 5, 2018

I had the same thing happen to me in my JKU on some really steep hills in NC.

I really think Jeep intended for people with the autos to use the manual mode. I didn't do it at first in my JKU but once I figured out that it held the gear through redline and would not shift until I wanted, it gave me all the control of a manual without having to work a clutch. I assume the ZF 8 spd is the same way. Once you get used to it, its great. But I can see how this could be a problem especially if it catches you off guard at the wrong obstacle at the wrong time.

BillArnett · Apr 5, 2018

Thanks big time, Eddie! This is certainly not the behavior I would have expected. I'm sure your warning will save me some grief, if not something much worse.

RMC2 · Apr 5, 2018

Thanks for sharing. This could cause someone without your experience level an issue that could go south in a hurry.

Bueller44 · Apr 5, 2018

Eddie, did you have the Auto Start Stop on or off? Was the motor mistakenly shutting off even though your foot wasn't on the gas?

wayoflife · Apr 5, 2018

Thinknator said:
I had the similar issue last week at EJS but wasn't sure what it was. My JL is all stock and we weren't doing any hard trails like Eddie was but you get that sense of uncertainty feeling like oh crap, what do I do? Luckily one of our guides there suggested to put into manual. Made all the difference.

Thanks for explaining Eddie, made a lot of sense now.

Definitely not a fun experience and I ran into multiple people in Moab who experienced the same thing.

offcamber said:
This same thing happened to us going up a really steep switchback on Engineer Pass last year in our 2014 Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. It was raining really hard so traction wasn't great and as I gave it some go pedal, it upshifted and I lost all momentum to the point that we stalled and started rolling back. I thought it had died at first. Needless to say, I stayed in manual shift mode using the paddle shifters the rest of the day.

Yup, manual shift is the only way to keep this from happening.

DEFCON1 said:
What in the hell kinda manufacturing safety ninja nonsense is this sh**. I hope this is something that can be fixed by adjusting the ECU/TCU parameters. Could you imagine someone who didn't have the experience or knowledge trying to get themselves unstuck from a situation like this and being trapped there for an extended period of time, thus putting them in greater danger then the "potential danger" that this "safety" feature is somehow preventing.

This is exactly why I posted this up - to help others who might not know any better.

TheChucklesStart said:
I guess this is why all of the pre-release offroad reviews explicitly mentioned putting the vehicle into first on jeeps demo course. I always thought that was to show off the manual control of the automatic.

LOL!! You could be on to something.

MAKE SURE to be in MANUAL SHIFT when Wheeling in 4LO

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