Lift confusion

JLJourney18

New member
I just ordered a 3.5 inch Rock Krawler X Factor lift for mine and ask the same questions about the front drive shaft. I was told unless u are running something like Pritchett Canyon trail, the factory driveshaft will work fine for basic trail riding. If anyone has watched the unofficial bob with the red JL and roof top tent, he was running stock front driveshaft up until recently. That jeep has been put through some serious stuff too. I will eventually get a new front shaft once the aftermarket catches up


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Shots

New member
....Like the reports on Dynatrac. But still not understanding the 1200$ price for shocks and springs. W/no arms ect. So manny others have lots of parts at that price point. Guess IÂ’m missing something....
So I've been searching for the answer to this same question. Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHY it cost twice as much as a Rancho lift ($640), or $500 more than Rubicon Express ($770), which also comes with control arms to correct camber. Heck even the the Rock Krawler kit that comes with control arms, AND a track bar is $1200. Granted the Rock Krawler kit doesn't come with shocks so I'd likely spend another $106 to buy two Rancho RS5000X shocks from Quadratech at $53 each (RS55379). In the end though that's $1300, which is the msrp of the Dynatrac kit. So what about that kit makes it cost as much as a kit that also gives you control arms and track bars?

Correction 10/19/18, 1112 hrs:
I just happened to think I'd need to spend an extra $212 for the Rock Krawler kit. I forgot to add the price of rear shocks too, which are also $53 each.
 

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darrenroos

New member
So I've been searching for the answer to this same question. Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHY it cost twice as much as a Rancho lift ($640), or $500 more than Rubicon Express ($770), which also comes with control arms to correct camber. Heck even the the Rock Krawler kit that comes with control arms, AND a track bar is $1200. Granted the Rock Krawler kit doesn't come with shocks so I'd likely spend another $106 to buy two Rancho RS5000X shocks from Quadratech at $53 each (RS55379). In the end though that's $1300, which is the msrp of the Dynatrac kit. So what about that kit makes it cost as much as a kit that also gives you control arms and track bars?

Correction 10/19/18, 1112 hrs:
I just happened to think I'd need to spend an extra $212 for the Rock Krawler kit. I forgot to add the price of rear shocks too, which are also $53 each.

Others here can give a more technical answer to your question but for me I lean on the “you get what you pay for” theory and I know that Dynatrac is a brand that does things right. Since my Jeep cost $54K to begin with, paying more for trusted quality is worth the extra investment. Not to say that the others kits are not good quality but as mentioned, I really trust their brand.


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ddays v2

Member
So I've been searching for the answer to this same question. Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHY it cost twice as much as a Rancho lift ($640), or $500 more than Rubicon Express ($770), which also comes with control arms to correct camber. Heck even the the Rock Krawler kit that comes with control arms, AND a track bar is $1200. Granted the Rock Krawler kit doesn't come with shocks so I'd likely spend another $106 to buy two Rancho RS5000X shocks from Quadratech at $53 each (RS55379). In the end though that's $1300, which is the msrp of the Dynatrac kit. So what about that kit makes it cost as much as a kit that also gives you control arms and track bars?

Correction 10/19/18, 1112 hrs:
I just happened to think I'd need to spend an extra $212 for the Rock Krawler kit. I forgot to add the price of rear shocks too, which are also $53 each.

:cheesy: I beg to differ - you were given several reasons as to why the Dynatrac kit costs more, you just refuse to acknowledge that higher grade kits command higher prices. What is so goddam hard about that to comprehend? Mercedes cars cost more than Chevys. Craft beer costs more than shitty light beer. Rolex watches cost more than a Timex. What is so hard about that to comprehend?
 

Rgk401

New member
:cheesy: I beg to differ - you were given several reasons as to why the Dynatrac kit costs more, you just refuse to acknowledge that higher grade kits command higher prices. What is so goddam hard about that to comprehend? Mercedes cars cost more than Chevys. Craft beer costs more than shitty light beer. Rolex watches cost more than a Timex. What is so hard about that to comprehend?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

gonefirefighting

New member
I went with the mopar 2" and called it a day until there are more options for well built and thoroughly executed lift for my needs. In the meantime, I have been very surprised by the Mopar lift. It would fill the check boxes for me if I wasnt going to upgrade to 60's and a longarm kit. plus you have a warranty with the mopar lift.

everyday I look at the top 4-5 manufacturers for long arm kits and they are still tweaking them to get the geometry just right.
 

Shots

New member
:cheesy: I beg to differ - you were given several reasons as to why the Dynatrac kit costs more, you just refuse to acknowledge that higher grade kits command higher prices. What is so goddam hard about that to comprehend? Mercedes cars cost more than Chevys. Craft beer costs more than shitty light beer. Rolex watches cost more than a Timex. What is so hard about that to comprehend?
Please do tell, what are these "several" reasons? The thing that is so hard to comprehend is that I'm not getting a straight answer. All I keep getting is that "you get what you pay for" which tells me nothing. I don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Yes quality products will cost more, but costing more doesn't automatically mean it's better quality. To use your example of Rolex vs Timex. Is a Rolex watch really worth $8,000 compared to a $40 Timex? No, it's bought for the name. It's a watch, what does it do that is so much better that it's worth so much more? You're actually making my point with the watch example. It's overpriced simply because it can be. It isn't so much better quality that it's worth that much mark up.

So back to lifts.
So far there have only been two answers that were remotely helpful. Both responses were in the other thread, and one was posted AFTER I posted in this thread, so at the time I only had 1 reason, not several as you suggest.
WJCO mentions the Dynatrac system being developed with "shocks and springs specially tuned to work together to achieve the best ride and performance". This was helpful, though I was hoping someone could shed a little more clarity on it.
Then WiscoHR mentions that "the price difference between the Rancho and Dynatrac kits is the costs of the shocks. Fox shocks cost more." This was helpful, which explained a little about the shocks/springs used in the Dynatrac kit and the increased cost.
Is there anything else? Or is it just due to the cost of R&D being passed on to the final price and a set of more expensive shocks? Or is it just a company making it more expensive to exploit the perception of it being better quality because it cost more?
 

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wwood

New member
Please do tell, what are these "several" reasons? The thing that is so hard to comprehend is that I'm not getting a straight answer. All I keep getting is that "you get what you pay for" which tells me nothing. I don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Yes quality products will cost more, but costing more doesn't automatically mean it's better quality. To use your example of Rolex vs Timex. Is a Rolex watch really worth $8,000 compared to a $40 Timex? No, it's bought for the name. It's a watch, what does it do that is so much better that it's worth so much more? You're actually making my point with the watch example. It's overpriced simply because it can be. It isn't so much better quality that it's worth that much mark up.

So back to lifts

So far there have only been two answers that were remotely helpful. Both responses were in the other thread, and one was posted AFTER I posted in this thread, so at the time I only had 1 reason, not several as you suggest.
WJCO mentions the Dynatrac system being developed with "shocks and springs specially tuned to work together to achieve the best ride and performance". This was helpful, though I was hoping someone could shed a little more clarity on it.
Then WiscoHR mentions that "the price difference between the Rancho and Dynatrac kits is the costs of the shocks. Fox shocks cost more." This was helpful, which explained a little about the shocks/springs used in the Dynatrac kit and the increased cost.
Is there anything else? Or is it just due to the cost of R&D being passed on to the final price and a set of more expensive shocks? Or is it just a company making it more expensive to exploit the perception of it being better quality because it cost more?

So Back to lifts....

I just put a Dynatrac lift on our JL as opposed to, for example, the Rancho kit because I am confident that the Dynatrac parts are better. There are 2 principal parts to the lift - shocks and springs. Dynatrac says their springs will not sag and they use Fox shocks which I know to be excellent. I have had Fox shocks on my dirt bikes over the years and on our 2015 Polaris Rzr. Springs made from high grade steel that last and don't sag are worth more than lower quality springs. High quality shocks that don't leak and don't overheat and last are also worth more than lower quality shocks that leak or wear out sooner. And, most importantly, shocks and springs that are properly "tuned" to each other are definitely worth more than sets that are not as well tuned.

When I finished installing the Dynatrac lift I was flat out amazed by the ride and handling on the street. Have not had time to take the Jeep offroad but the way the Jeep handles on local streets, over bumps and on the freeway is absolutely first class, way better than stock. I did add KTM wheels and Cooper 37s soon after the lift was on but I did put maybe 100 miles on the lift with the factory wheels/tires and the ride and handling was absolutely outstanding on the factory parts as well. We traded a 2013 JK on the JL and the JK had 3" EVO plush ride springs, adjustable control arms and trackbars on ATX Slabs and 35s. The JL with the Dynatrac lift puts our old JK to shame and we loved that JK and it did ride and handle very well.

I am not slamming the Rancho lift but there is no way they could duplicate the quality and performance of the Dynatrac lift at the Rancho price point. Better quality parts cost more money, its that simple. I am real picky and assure you that I would not be praising the Dynatrac lift if I did not love the performance and feel that we got our money's worth. The Dynatrac lift works great and I feel sure it will continue to perform in an excellent manner for years. I do not feel confident that the Rancho kit can compare in performance or long life. So, to me, the Dynatrac lift is well worth the extra cost and money well spent.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Member
Please do tell, what are these "several" reasons? The thing that is so hard to comprehend is that I'm not getting a straight answer. All I keep getting is that "you get what you pay for" which tells me nothing. I don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Yes quality products will cost more, but costing more doesn't automatically mean it's better quality. To use your example of Rolex vs Timex. Is a Rolex watch really worth $8,000 compared to a $40 Timex? No, it's bought for the name. It's a watch, what does it do that is so much better that it's worth so much more? You're actually making my point with the watch example. It's overpriced simply because it can be. It isn't so much better quality that it's worth that much mark up.

So back to lifts.
So far there have only been two answers that were remotely helpful. Both responses were in the other thread, and one was posted AFTER I posted in this thread, so at the time I only had 1 reason, not several as you suggest.
WJCO mentions the Dynatrac system being developed with "shocks and springs specially tuned to work together to achieve the best ride and performance". This was helpful, though I was hoping someone could shed a little more clarity on it.
Then WiscoHR mentions that "the price difference between the Rancho and Dynatrac kits is the costs of the shocks. Fox shocks cost more." This was helpful, which explained a little about the shocks/springs used in the Dynatrac kit and the increased cost.
Is there anything else? Or is it just due to the cost of R&D being passed on to the final price and a set of more expensive shocks? Or is it just a company making it more expensive to exploit the perception of it being better quality because it cost more?

I answered your question above...the reason why the Dynatrac lift costs more is that there is actual engineering involved. Engineering a lift for a vehicle is VERY different that creating a kit that FITS the vehicle. If you've been in the aftermarket game long enough, you will know that most aftermarket parts fall into the latter category...they just fit. Few are actually engineered, and when they are, they cost more. As for Rolex vs Timex, my other hobby, among many, is horology. There is a big difference between a Rolex and a Timex. The function (telling time) is not the only thing you measure. One retains it's value, lasts a lifetime, can be passed down, has actual complicated expensive parts, is made from vastly superior materials, is much more accurate, doesn't require a battery to function, etc etc etc. Using that logic, we should all be rolling around some $1000 junker on 40" tires with a junkyard motor.
 

drhcobra

Member
Well I guess I have to much time to over research before the JL gets here. I’m having a hell of a time deciding on a lift kit.

I know I’ll get a 100 different answers but, what do y’all think.

2019 rubicon
Start with 35s as it will drive on the street mostly.
I’m putting bumpers front and back, with a tire carrier.
Lod sliders. Winch.
So I’m adding a lot of weight right off the bat.
Most likely will change wheels also, understand set back can be an issue with some. Not sure I want to change the front drive shaft but I don’t want to have issues.

Don’t really want to do it twice. Not that I can’t go small. I’m just afraid of not being happy and waisting time and cash.

I’m considering all, even the mopar 2”, to the high $ 3.5 inch lifts.

Thanks


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If you can afford it go with the dynatrac you will not be disappointed. Also as you are going to be mostly on the street going up to 37’s in the future shouldn’t be an issue even with a little sag.


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ddays v2

Member
Please do tell, what are these "several" reasons? The thing that is so hard to comprehend is that I'm not getting a straight answer. All I keep getting is that "you get what you pay for" which tells me nothing. I don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Yes quality products will cost more, but costing more doesn't automatically mean it's better quality. To use your example of Rolex vs Timex. Is a Rolex watch really worth $8,000 compared to a $40 Timex? No, it's bought for the name. It's a watch, what does it do that is so much better that it's worth so much more? You're actually making my point with the watch example. It's overpriced simply because it can be. It isn't so much better quality that it's worth that much mark up.

So back to lifts.
So far there have only been two answers that were remotely helpful. Both responses were in the other thread, and one was posted AFTER I posted in this thread, so at the time I only had 1 reason, not several as you suggest.
WJCO mentions the Dynatrac system being developed with "shocks and springs specially tuned to work together to achieve the best ride and performance". This was helpful, though I was hoping someone could shed a little more clarity on it.
Then WiscoHR mentions that "the price difference between the Rancho and Dynatrac kits is the costs of the shocks. Fox shocks cost more." This was helpful, which explained a little about the shocks/springs used in the Dynatrac kit and the increased cost.
Is there anything else? Or is it just due to the cost of R&D being passed on to the final price and a set of more expensive shocks? Or is it just a company making it more expensive to exploit the perception of it being better quality because it cost more?


:rolleyes2: Great job twisting the Rolex argument. You're wrong of course. Please by all means, buy the cheapass Timex lift kit you're intent of purchasing and then tell us how great it is and how stupid we all are for spending too much money on ours. It's you're money so spend it how you wish. People that have been around the Jeep scene recognize what companies make good parts, and which ones don't. The answers you've been receiving here and advice given on other threads to other people, (if you would take the time to look through and find additional answers I was referrring to) reflect as much.
 

Shots

New member
So Back to lifts....

I just put a Dynatrac lift on our JL as opposed to, for example, the Rancho kit because I am confident that the Dynatrac parts are better. There are 2 principal parts to the lift - shocks and springs. Dynatrac says their springs will not sag and they use Fox shocks which I know to be excellent. I have had Fox shocks on my dirt bikes over the years and on our 2015 Polaris Rzr. Springs made from high grade steel that last and don't sag are worth more than lower quality springs. High quality shocks that don't leak and don't overheat and last are also worth more than lower quality shocks that leak or wear out sooner. And, most importantly, shocks and springs that are properly "tuned" to each other are definitely worth more than sets that are not as well tuned.

When I finished installing the Dynatrac lift I was flat out amazed by the ride and handling on the street. Have not had time to take the Jeep offroad but the way the Jeep handles on local streets, over bumps and on the freeway is absolutely first class, way better than stock. I did add KTM wheels and Cooper 37s soon after the lift was on but I did put maybe 100 miles on the lift with the factory wheels/tires and the ride and handling was absolutely outstanding on the factory parts as well. We traded a 2013 JK on the JL and the JK had 3" EVO plush ride springs, adjustable control arms and trackbars on ATX Slabs and 35s. The JL with the Dynatrac lift puts our old JK to shame and we loved that JK and it did ride and handle very well.

I am not slamming the Rancho lift but there is no way they could duplicate the quality and performance of the Dynatrac lift at the Rancho price point. Better quality parts cost more money, its that simple. I am real picky and assure you that I would not be praising the Dynatrac lift if I did not love the performance and feel that we got our money's worth. The Dynatrac lift works great and I feel sure it will continue to perform in an excellent manner for years. I do not feel confident that the Rancho kit can compare in performance or long life. So, to me, the Dynatrac lift is well worth the extra cost and money well spent.
THANK YOU!!!! I really appreciate the time you took to explain your experience. I know Fox has been around a long time, and they've got a great reputation, so I would expect the shocks to be good. Based on your reply, and other prior posts, it sounds like the choice of Fox shocks is a major factor in the increased price of the Dynatrac kit versus other kits.
So at the risk of kicking off another fire storm, how was it before the tires? Even for the 100 miles on stock tires, it felt good? I've seen a lot of people who add tires immediately with the lift, so it's hard to find anyone who has experience with lifts on stock tires (other than spacer lifts). It makes it hard to know how much influence the tires had on what they felt when they do both at once.

.....buy the cheapass Timex lift kit you're intent of purchasing and then tell us how great it is and how stupid we all are for spending too much money on ours....
Not once have I said, or implied, that anyone was stupid for spending the money on a Dynatrac lift. If you, or anyone, took any of my comments to mean I felt that way, I apologize. It was not intended how you/they took it. I have only been searching for a quality kit with a justified price. Dynatrac's price may be justified, I don't know, that's why I was asking the questions. I sincerely do apologize if anyone thought I was trying to be judgmental. I was not.
 

wwood

New member
THANK YOU!!!! I really appreciate the time you took to explain your experience. I know Fox has been around a long time, and they've got a great reputation, so I would expect the shocks to be good. Based on your reply, and other prior posts, it sounds like the choice of Fox shocks is a major factor in the increased price of the Dynatrac kit versus other kits.
So at the risk of kicking off another fire storm, how was it before the tires? Even for the 100 miles on stock tires, it felt good? I've seen a lot of people who add tires immediately with the lift, so it's hard to find anyone who has experience with lifts on stock tires (other than spacer lifts). It makes it hard to know how much influence the tires had on what they felt when they do both at once.

"How was it before the tires?"

Immediately after installing the lift when we still had the factory wheels/tires is when I noticed the stunning improvement in ride quality and handling. The Dynatrac front springs have 10 coils (winds), the factory fronts only have 8 coils; the Dynatrac rear springs have 7 coils, the factory rears only have 6. That difference and maybe the way the springs are heat treated allows the Dynatrac ride to be plusher yet more solid feeling than the factory setup. No doubt the Fox shocks also contribute the the great ride. I liked the ride even more when we installed bigger tires but that is comparing the ride and handling to other lifted Jeeps with big tires. We initially had a Teraflex 3" lift on our 2013 JK with 35s and that sucked. Like Eddie said those springs were just too harsh. I removed the Teraflex lift and switched to EVO plush ride springs with Bilstein shocks and that made a tremendous improvement but the Dynatrac lift on the JL is better. Adding much heavier wheels and tires does not improve ride or handling on the street, extra unsprung weight is not good for suspension performance, but the bigger tires are great offroad, increased ground clearance and traction plus they look cool! :)
 

Shots

New member
Thanks again.
Having done large tires before on trucks, I know exactly what you mean about heavy tires not being ideal for comfort. I did notice from doing that though, that some large tires cushion the ride a bit due to the increased side wall. That and a larger tire circumference is a little smoother over rough roads because they don't "fall" into holes as far. There's certainly pros/cons to bigger tires, with pretty much the biggest con being the weight.
Thanks again for the help.
 

wibornz

New member
I ordered the Rancho lift with the adjustable shocks. I think this will be fine for my application. I did not want to go any higher as my wife will just be able to get into it with out assistance. I am NOT carrying a step stool everywhere we go. I am not trying to build the ultimate rock climber. I just want something that can handle 80% of the stuff found on a trail. I have no interest in proving that my jeep will do this or that. I am just interested in getting off the beating path away from the grind of people and enjoying the views. Ideally when I wheel, I will try and stay within 70% of the Jeep's capacity. I DO NOT want to have to walk out of the mountains with an angry spouse.
 

aug0211

New member
I ordered the Rancho lift with the adjustable shocks. I think this will be fine for my application. I did not want to go any higher as my wife will just be able to get into it with out assistance. I am NOT carrying a step stool everywhere we go. I am not trying to build the ultimate rock climber. I just want something that can handle 80% of the stuff found on a trail. I have no interest in proving that my jeep will do this or that. I am just interested in getting off the beating path away from the grind of people and enjoying the views. Ideally when I wheel, I will try and stay within 70% of the Jeep's capacity. I DO NOT want to have to walk out of the mountains with an angry spouse.

Pretty similar to me in terms of what you want to do off road. The biggest challenge for me is finding good places like that (in Ohio)!


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JeepGA

New member
Please do tell, what are these "several" reasons? The thing that is so hard to comprehend is that I'm not getting a straight answer. All I keep getting is that "you get what you pay for" which tells me nothing. I don't buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Yes quality products will cost more, but costing more doesn't automatically mean it's better quality. To use your example of Rolex vs Timex. Is a Rolex watch really worth $8,000 compared to a $40 Timex? No, it's bought for the name. It's a watch, what does it do that is so much better that it's worth so much more? You're actually making my point with the watch example. It's overpriced simply because it can be. It isn't so much better quality that it's worth that much mark up.

So back to lifts.
So far there have only been two answers that were remotely helpful. Both responses were in the other thread, and one was posted AFTER I posted in this thread, so at the time I only had 1 reason, not several as you suggest.
WJCO mentions the Dynatrac system being developed with "shocks and springs specially tuned to work together to achieve the best ride and performance". This was helpful, though I was hoping someone could shed a little more clarity on it.
Then WiscoHR mentions that "the price difference between the Rancho and Dynatrac kits is the costs of the shocks. Fox shocks cost more." This was helpful, which explained a little about the shocks/springs used in the Dynatrac kit and the increased cost.
Is there anything else? Or is it just due to the cost of R&D being passed on to the final price and a set of more expensive shocks? Or is it just a company making it more expensive to exploit the perception of it being better quality because it cost more?
I'd like to know when one of these products is overserving through unnecessary engineering. That just adds cost. On the other hand, knowing where that line is drawn is critical in this decision for me.

I don't want crap, and I don't want a Rolex. I just wanna protect my investment and have some fun

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