If you think saving the planet is nonsense then I wish you would move to another one

[ddays v2]

Prius forums

Have to admit I'm still giggling after reading these two words put together

 

[doubletapdaddy]

I live a life that is often variegated with fortuitous serendipity. Just now I decided to enjoy a fortune cookie with my coffee...

 

[wayoflife]

I’ve known you for many years and had discussions with you outside the Jeep world. We agree on far more than we disagree.

And, for someone who's known me for as long as you have, you know full well that I NEVER get involved in the gun control discussions or abortion ones if they exists or what have you. The only reason why I chimed in on this one is because it directly affects me and the way of life I choose to live. I don't want to drive a Tesla nor do I want to wheel an EV offroader and if some nut job is gonna tell me the world is gonna end in 12 years, I would expect him to at least practice what he preaches.

Not saying trump is far right on most topics. Nor that all trump supporters are far right. But there are certainly far right trump supporters. To me, nut jobs are nut jobs, doesn’t matter left or right.

Well, all I can say to that is that I don't know of any - not personally or even casually here on the forum. So really, to me, it's a moot point. What I have seen is this Bill guy and to be honest, I don't look at him so much as being a nut job but rather, a threat to how I choose to live my life.

My point is not to get into the weeds. In fact it’s the opposite and just as you noted “this is a Jeep forum.” I wish we would separate the politics from why we came here and stay here. [emoji106]

You're right, this is a Jeep forum and if guys like Bill and AOC get their way, this site and the vehicle we love to drive will be a thing of the past. And, don't think for a second I'm exaggerating. The fact that we're having this discussion at all is proof that their side is winning.

 

[Jdofmemi]

Thing that climate control people don't what you to know or think about......

I live in Michigan. How was Michigan created.....There was an Ice Age. Glaciers carved the Great Lakes when the world was much colder than it is today. The climate of the earth changed and the earth warmed up causing the Glaciers to melt. Follow me here....The earth warmed up, glaciers melted and more water covered the earth and sea levels rose. If you have watched even a few of Eddies, videos, you will see him off road in dried up lake beds all over in the western states. Not one or two, many of them. Meaning that the water receded.

Now back to Michigan. Michigan, thousands of years ago was tropical as well as many other northern states.....How do we know this. Well real scientist have dug up fossils of animals and plants that could only survive in tropical conditions in northern states. So therefore Michigan with it's record snow fall in parts of the U.P. used to be a warm climate.

How is it that Michigan has been covered with glaciers and been a tropical climate? Well the answer is real easy, there is climate change. It is a natural thing. It does not take much reading to find that they predict that at our current rate of temperature change, the climate scientist believe that the temperature of the earth will increase about 2 degrees over the next fifty years. Well to get the tropical weather back in MIchigan, we really need to step up our game.

The climate change as being sold to the world is just a means to hustle and scam the people of the world out of millions and redistribute wealth. You don't have to believe it, just do a quick read of the Pairs Accord that the US pulled out of. And ask yourself how much money was the US slated to put in that agreement, what is our national debt and how long will it take our great great grand kids to pay that back.

The climate will change. We will adapt to the change or we will go extinct. We are not immune to it just as no life is. Adapt or die, the climate will change. It has in the past, it is in the present and it will in the future.

So enjoy that lifted big tire Jeep as I am going to enjoy mine. If you really want to do something, maybe stop buying and using one time use plastics when possible.


So while we would like to think that we are all powerful, we will not stop climate change.

So, as I was reading this train wreck of a thread, I was thinking about pretty much the same thing about the glaciers, ice ages, etc. I did not know about the tropical stuff in MI, so I learned something new. Thanks.

That said, we are not going to stop climate change. It is changing regardless of what we do, and if we try to change things back we are likely to screw it up even worse.

What I believe we will do is adapt and overcome whatever challenges the changing world brings us. It will not be by giving up our Wayalife, but by finding solutions to problems.

Also, many of the changes will be positive, offsetting many of the negative ones. How about longer growing seasons in places like Canada and Russia? That will better feed the world.

There are many more positive examples, but we are force fed the "horrors" to come without any credit given to the positives. There is much manipulation going on, and things being twisted for certain agendas.

In the meantime, I will drive my Jeep and use it to get away from the self righteous Prius driving people who are trying to turn the US into a socialist country

 

[BillArnett]

... The only reason [Tesla] turned a profit at all is because they sell their green house gas credits to the other automotive companies for hundreds of millions of dollars....

That was a minor but significant factor in the past but it is no longer. According to their 2018 Q4 financial report they only got $768,000 (thousands, no typo) in ZEV credits that quarter. Gross automotive revenue was $6,073,471,000 (billions, no typo) for that quarter.

 

[BillArnett]

So, an oil industry scientist is less trustworthy, than a scientist who gets a grant from climate change organizations, to try and prove their point of view?

Maybe you would feel better trusting the DoD: “The effects of a changing climate are a national security issue with potential impacts to Department of Defense missions, operational plans, and installations"; for more see:

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...n-critical-bases-face-climate-change-threats/

The report referenced in that article addresses only a small part of the problem (military bases and other facilities) and only in the short term (20 years) but it is a clear acknowledgment that the problem exists and has to be dealt with. (Never mind all the fuss over how the report was made public.)

 

[notnalc68]

Hum. I see parentheses. That means losses, right. From their 10k filing.

http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/15df7636-8cd8-4b18-989b-4badeeda806c


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[BillArnett]

Hum. I see parentheses. That means losses, right. From their 10k filing.

That's right. But those numbers are for the whole of 2018. Tesla's financials are changing rapidly as they ramp up production. In Q3 and Q4 they actually made a small profit.

[This doesn't have much to do with the rest of this thread but I think it's important to set the record straight.)

2019Q1 is expected to be a small loss. For the full year 2019 they are projecting sales of 400,000+ cars and overall profitability. We'll see.

 

[Piginajeep]

I bet you measure from your asshole don’t you ?


2019 MP
2012 JK8
1958 FC170
1954 M38A1

 

[notnalc68]

That's right. But those numbers are for the whole of 2018. Tesla's financials are changing rapidly as they ramp up production. In Q3 and Q4 they actually made a small profit.

[This doesn't have much to do with the rest of this thread but I think it's important to set the record straight.)

2019Q1 is expected to be a small loss. For the full year 2019 they are projecting sales of 400,000+ cars and overall profitability. We'll see.

Yes, we will see.

Now to the question I’ve asked 4 times. How much has the mileage decreased on your Jeep, as you build it up and it becomes ever more heavy? Do you think your carbon emissions have increased, as your engine pushes those 37’s. I call the difference between your environmental views, and your actions, hypocrisy.



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[notnalc68]

What did these tires do to your mileage?
View attachment 9248


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Second time:

What mileage do you get with these tires, as you build your ever heavier Jeep?
View attachment 9251


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How much gas mileage have you lost, and how much harder is your engine working, to push your ever heavier Jeep? You seem to be avoiding this question.
View attachment 9252


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I apologize for nothing. I still want to know how much gas mileage bill arnett’s Jeep has lost, since he’s been building it up? Is the engine spouting more carbon, since it is working harder?



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Yes, we will see.

Now to the question I’ve asked 4 times. How much has the mileage decreased on your Jeep, as you build it up and it becomes ever more heavy? Do you think your carbon emissions have increased, as your engine pushes those 37’s. I call the difference between your environmental views, and your actions, hypocrisy.



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Still waiting....


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[JAGS]

And, for someone who's known me for as long as you have, you know full well that I NEVER get involved in the gun control discussions or abortion ones if they exists or what have you. The only reason why I chimed in on this one is because it directly affects me and the way of life I choose to live. I don't want to drive a Tesla nor do I want to wheel an EV offroader and if some nut job is gonna tell me the world is gonna end in 12 years, I would expect him to at least practice what he preaches.

I know why you chimed in. Couldn’t agree more.

Well, all I can say to that is that I don't know of any - not personally or even casually here on the forum. So really, to me, it's a moot point. What I have seen is this Bill guy and to be honest, I don't look at him so much as being a nut job but rather, a threat to how I choose to live my life.

I know what I have personally encountered from the so called “far right.” That is all I’m referencing. These encounters have not happened with someone on your forums. Some of what has been written and said to me personally is in fact a threat to my life and my families life.

You're right, this is a Jeep forum and if guys like Bill and AOC get their way, this site and the vehicle we love to drive will be a thing of the past. And, don't think for a second I'm exaggerating. The fact that we're having this discussion at all is proof that their side is winning.

I don’t think your exaggerating.

 

[BillArnett]

...The constant torque of EVs in an off roader would be awesome like I said. But again range is key. On a commuter vehicle where can make it round trip to work and home no biggy. I take my Jeep off roading a minimum of 120+ plus miles away every time I go. So to get there, wheel all day, and get home I'd need range of 600+ miles (wheeling range is way less than normal range).

So I'm guessing your trip is: 120 miles to the trailhead, 60 miles of wheeling, and 120 miles back home; total 300 miles. Right? And then you doubled that to compensate for the fact that off-roading is less efficient. But that's not quite right. You only need to double the 60 off-road miles. So your equivalent range needed is 120 + 120 + 60*2 = 360. So if you believe Rivian's numbers you would get home with 40 miles to spare.

Most trips I go 8+ hours away. And when I'm going on a long drive to a remote area to wheel I'm not going to stop multiple times and wait for 1/2 hour plus to get 60% charge in my EV.

See above. But if don't believe that (and it is open to debate how much an EV off-roader would use in various kinds of terrain) you could still charge once during your lunch break without costing yourself much. If you do that whole 8+ hour trip without a break you're a tougher man than I.:yup:

Again imo range and charge rates have to get to same as gas and there has to be an entire network of chargers like gas stations are now. Based on the current EV vehicle sales rate of around 3% and the projected rate over the next 5-10 years maybe doubling at best, the vast majority of people feel the same way. Will mass adoption happen some day? Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.

We're not there yet but it's not as bad as you may think. Here's a map showing all the Tesla Superchargers (60% in 1/2 hr) in red and Tesla "destination chargers" (full charge in 5 or 6 hours) in black:



That's as of today; Tesla is building more as fast as they can get building permits. There are also a large and increasing number of non-Tesla high speed chargers:



In a pinch one can also charge at many campgrounds and RV parks. One can also get a 50% charge overnight almost anywhere there's electric power.

Is this as convenient as gasoline? No. Is it really much of a burden? No, again. The only real inconvenience is that it takes a bit of planning to find the chargers. But, of course, Tesla makes that easy by displaying them on the NAV screen in the car. Charging time is a bigger issue. (The power level of a gas pump is truly awesome.) But my experience has been that it is usually convenient to combine charging with another stop that I would have made anyway. Sometimes not. We're not there yet. But it's not as bad as you think.

 

[olram30]

Could you imagine going on a wheeling trip with this nerd. Listening to this shit all day

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[JTCO]

Here's a map showing all the Tesla Superchargers (60% in 1/2 hr) in red and Tesla "destination chargers" (full charge in 5 or 6 hours) in black:

View attachment 9292

That's as of today; Tesla is building more as fast as they can get building permits. There are also a large and increasing number of non-Tesla high speed chargers:

View attachment 9293

My, God. We're being invaded by eco-retards. God, I hope the Aliens reach us first.

 

[BillArnett]

Yes, we will see.

Now to the question I’ve asked 4 times. How much has the mileage decreased on your Jeep, as you build it up and it becomes ever more heavy? Do you think your carbon emissions have increased, as your engine pushes those 37’s. I call the difference between your environmental views, and your actions, hypocrisy.



Sent from my iPhone using JL Wrangler Jeep Forum mobile app

I didn't answer because I don't have a quantitative answer. I only drove my JL a few days before putting on the 37s and the lift. If I had to guess I've lost 2 or 3 mpg. It went from really really bad to really really really bad. That's the price I have to pay to do get to the places I love and do the things that I enjoy. I don't think it's hypocritical, it's just an unfortunate trade off. And it's exactly why I'm so eager to get an EV off-roader.

 

[OverlanderJL]

I didn't answer because I don't have a quantitative answer. I only drove my JL a few days before putting on the 37s and the lift. If I had to guess I've lost 2 or 3 mpg. It went from really really bad to really really really bad. That's the price I have to pay to do get to the places I love and do the things that I enjoy. I don't think it's hypocritical, it's just an unfortunate trade off. And it's exactly why I'm so eager to get an EV off-roader.

You are the reason we are all going to die in 12 years.

And your math is equally as bad as your logic.


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[OverlanderJL]

Could you imagine going on a wheeling trip with this nerd. Listening to this shit all day

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Lol


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[JTCO]

Could you imagine going on a wheeling trip with this nerd. Listening to this shit all day

No shit. I use my Jeep to get away from this shit.

 

[BillArnett]

... What I have seen is this Bill guy and to be honest, I don't look at him so much as being a nut job but rather, a threat to how I choose to live my life.

You're right, this is a Jeep forum and if guys like Bill and AOC get their way, this site and the vehicle we love to drive will be a thing of the past. And, don't think for a second I'm exaggerating. The fact that we're having this discussion at all is proof that their side is winning.

Two points. First, I'm in the same boat as you wrt my way of life. I would be very upset if I had to give up off-road travel. If I'm threatening anyone I'm threatening myself, too. But I don't think that's that case because...

Second, it's perfectly reasonable to think that an electric off-roader would be perfectly adequate if not greatly superior to a Jeep. See elsewhere on this thread. But perhaps wrenching on your Jeep is also an important part of your way of life (as it is for me)? I don't think an EV off-roader would be all that different in that respect. How often do you actually work on the engine/transmission? We could still have fun messing with the rest of it.

And third, off-roaders are a trivial part of the CO2 problem. It would be perfectly reasonable to make an exception to allow gas powered off-roaders at least while there's still a demand for them as EV off-roaders become available. This is America. No one is trying to take you Jeep away. Certainly not me. It may become a thing of the past just like your CJ but that's not so bad, is it? Lots of people thought the world was coming to an end when the JK replaced the TJ. But it actually came out OK. If something better comes along to replace the JL that'll be OK, too.